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Monday Feb. 5, 2007
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'IT'S ALL
ABOUT FAIRNESS"
An interview with JACK LAYTON
by
Angelo Persichilli
THE HILL TIMES
NDP Leader Jack Layton, whose
party holds the balance of power in this minority Parliament, says the NDP
wants “fairness and affordability” in the next budget. Otherwise, Mr. Layton
(Toronto-Danforth, Ont.) says his party may also vote against it next month.
Do you believe that minority
Parliaments are good or bad for the country?
"I think they
can be good. In fact, historically they are very good. Some of the most
important issues that Canadians believe are part of their identity happened
in a minority Parliaments when the NDP was in a position to have significant
influence. Tommy Douglas was chosen as one of the greatest Canadians and it
was primarily because of his work done to accomplish Medicare. He brought it
to Saskatchewan first and then to Canada in minority Parliaments.”
Liberals say they did Medicare...
"They were in
government. But they had promised Medicare shortly after the turn of the
century. It took them 60 years to get around and do it. Meanwhile, Tommy
Douglas had been doing it for many years already in Saskatchewan. And it was
when it was a minority Parliament that the Liberal promise became a reality.
This was the same thing in the last Parliament with child care. The Liberals
had promised, many times, specifically to bring child care in, starting with
the 1993 ‘Red Book’. They said they would create 50,000 spaces at the time
when we had a GNP growth more than three per cent. For 12 years in a row,
the GNP growth was more than three per cent, but they did not bring in one
space. But finally, when we had a minority Parliament, they had to get
moving. Unfortunately, they did not put it into legislation as we had urged
[then Human Resources minister] Mr. Ken Dryden to do. We are now doing that
in the House of Commons and the NDP’s legislation to create a national
childcare system has passed second reading. It was quite historic that a
national social program would be voted on positively by the House of
Commons, even though the government voted against it, while even the Bloc
voted for it. This shows that a minority Parliament can create a certain
kind of dynamic that can be very positive for Canadians. The Canada Pension
Plan and a national housing program that helps to build many seniors homes
and not-for-profits all over Canada, was brought in during a minority
Parliament in 1972-74. But when the Liberals had a majority they cancelled
it.”
Are you going to offer the present
Conservative government the same potential cooperation?
"Our
goal is to cooperate with any party that will assist in bringing in changes.
So, in the childcare bill we cooperated with the Liberals and the Bloc to
have a national law. We are now saying that, for instance, on the crisis of
climate change, that all parties should come to a special committee and
bring the best ideas and vote on them, every party. Now we will see how the
combination goes. Our hope is that there will be a competition among various
parties to come up with the best proposals to rapidly change the direction
of our economy, so as to be much more efficient and, therefore, produce a
lot more with a reduction of the emissions.”
Are you optimistic? Some are
writing that you already have a deal on the environment.
"We don't have an
agreement. It depends on whether we’re going to see a budget that will
provide some fairness and affordability to the average working family;
fairness and affordability issues that people are facing now, like making
sure that young people can get the training or the post-secondary education
that they need. This is getting too expensive for a lot of families. Or that
seniors can get the homecare they need and when they need it, or the long
term care and reduction of the wait-times. These are the kinds of the issues
that we are dealing with. So if the budget deals with those needs and will
cancel the subsidizations of the big gas and oil companies and puts that
money into the environment issues to help Canadians in their homes—where
they work to reduce the gas emissions—if the budget does those things and it
will invest in the solutions that are needed in our cities and in our
communities, then we will give it a very fair assessment. But that’s the
question: does Mr. Harper understand the importance of fairness and
affordability right now? I think he has betrayed many people who voted for
him and who thought that he would be on their side, for the middle- class
and they are instead seeing things becoming tougher and tougher.”
Mr. Layton, let’s be realistic.
There are huge differences between you and the Conservatives. If there is an
agreement and both of you have to give up something, what’s the issue you
will fight for the most?
"We don’t have one. I
believe that fairness for working people, ordinary Canadians, is vital, as
it is the fight for the environment. There are steps to be taken. The
question is if this government will understand that there are steps to be
taken and that’s what we have to assess.”
Yes, but how far are you prepared
to go?
"Well, we will raise
those issues strongly in the hopes that they will listen to Canadians. We
are not like the Liberals; they counted themselves out of the game. They
have just said that they will vote against the budget, in other words, ‘We
do not intend even to try to have any influence on the budget but we are
just going to vote against it.’ Then, why bother showing up for work? We,
instead, are there to work and we believe in trying to get some results.”
Do you really believe that the
Liberals want to defeat the government?
Well, they said they
would vote against the budget, so I don’t know what they intend to do for
the next five or seven weeks.”
The Liberals have a new leader. Do
you see or expect some changes?
"I think it’s too early to say. After all Mr. Dion was part of the
Cabinet at the time when this prosperity gap for hard-working families in
the country was growing.”
We’ll probably have an election
pretty soon. What issue will dominate the debate?
"We hope that the
question of fairness for families will be a key issue that will be debated.
It is an issue that is not talked about and then more and more people will
be left behind. Of course, the environment issue is critical and, we are at
war. The Liberals wouldn’t use that word with [former prime minister] Mr.
[Paul] Martin when he took us there. [Prime Minister] Mr. [Stephen] Harper
wouldn’t use that word; he didn’t even want to debate the issue. We insisted
and we had a debate and now I believe that everybody acknowledges that we
are at war. The Afghans’ approach is a White House-based approach. This is
an American initiative and we have abandoned the Canadian approach that is
to work with the European allies who have said that they don’t agree with
this aggressive approach and what has happened to Canada and its role in the
world?”
Your party is the one that raised
the Arar case in the House first, but it still looks like a lot of credit
went to the last two governments for solving the case. How do you feel?
"I’m told that he
specifically did mention the NDP. As soon as Maher Arar was taken away, [NDP
MP] Alexa [McDonough] tracked down Monia Mazigh, Arar’s wife, where she was,
in East Africa, and told her that we were ready to help. We’ve helped since
the beginning and we were alone. However, it is not important. Once a person
told me, ‘You can get a lot done, as long as you don’t take credit for it
and you are not worried about credit.’ In a way this is the sort of approach
the NDP has for politics.”
Is it happening quite often
though...
"For example, we got money for
transit three years ago. For several months, the Liberals were out
announcing that money, and now the Conservatives are announcing the NDP
money. I remember when we had the vote on those programs in the House, and I
remember Conservatives coming out and, in front of the media, they took Bill
C-48 which was our budget bill, and they tore it up in front of the cameras;
and now they are announcing the projects that are funded with the money they
voted against and I know that they do not invite us for the announcements.”
How do you feel?
"We sleep well at night.”
Now you’re pushing the government
to challenge the United States to clear Arar’s name. The U.S. ambassador
calls it an interference in the internal matters of a foreign country.
Aren’t you concerned about it?
"No. In fact, we’ve called
for Canada to stand up for Maher Arar and for other people on this
watch-list for a long time. If Canada doesn’t stand up for itself, we will
get pushed over.”
No concerns for diplomatic
consequences?
"No. It is vitally
important that Canada stands up for itself. The Americans respect the
countries that have backbone. In fact, we have a lot of support in the
American Congress. The American people appreciate Canada standing up for
itself.”
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